[reccom] 3 records completed, 1 to 2nd round - Flycatcher thoughts

Tue Oct 2 11:23:37 MDT 2007

Hello Rick (et al),

I think Rick makes excellent points.  However, if genetic data be
needed, they really should be gathered if we are going to make any
definitive statements shorter than the one provided by Rick.  Genetic
testing is getting easier and easier (heck, even I have participated in
one such study for martins), so that shouldn't be impossible.  When I
suggested mist-netting in my vote comment, I meant "net & bleed".  How
else are our proclamations in such cases going to be anything other than
(albeit informed) opinion?  It strikes me that we should not make
statistical observations on the Western flycatcher issue unless we have
hard (hard as blood) data to correlate to the softer (soft as in a
song/call) data.

Of course, in this particular case, we have only trends from other
states, and I am not sure how they determined the exact species beyond
the calls/songs.

Thank you for bringing this up, Rick.  It certainly is a dilemma. 
Luckily, some (but not all) of the proposed splits you mentioned are a
bit more differentiable in the field than the Western flycatcher.

David

>>> "Rick Fridell" <rfridell at burgoyne.com> 10/1/2007 9:49 PM >>>
Hello Everyone,

I thought I'd send out my second round comments on the Pacific-slope
Flycatcher record to try and stimulate some discussion.

" Obviously this bird cannot be distinguished further than ‘western’
flycatcher.

I submitted this record for two reasons. The first is that as far as I
know,
there are no other reports of western flycatcher or any other
Empidonax
flycatcher in the winter in Utah. (I'm not sure we ever came to any
resolution, but I recall Mark suggested we review out of season
observations, and I concur that many of these types of observations
are
intriguing and perhaps more significant, than say a vagrant Blackpoll
Warbler).

Secondly, I believe that it is an oversight that Pacific-slope
Flycatcher is
not currently on the Utah list.

Even in hand, very few of these flycatchers are distinguishable, with
nearly
all measurements showing extensive overlap. The only reliable way to
distinguish these species is genetic analysis (and allozyme analysis
shows
these are distinct species that have been genetically separated for
eons,
lack evidence of hybridization, and show assortative mating in areas
of
overlapping breeding habitat). In addition, there is strong evidence
that
the Channel Island Flycatcher (currently recognized by the AOU as a
subspecies of Pac-slope, E. d. insulicola) is likely a separate
species.
Mitochondrial DNA analysis is going to provide insight into speciation
and
genetic relationships of many currently recognized subspecies over the
next
several years. And will very likely result in many, many additional
splits
that will be nearly as difficult as western flycatchers (e.g. Red
Crossbills, Spotted Towhees, Common Ravens, Song Sparrows, Savannah
Sparrows, Fox Sparrows, Bushtits ……..and many more).

I believe we should consider a process to evaluate these splits and
their
corresponding probability of occurrence in Utah as they are accepted by
the
AOU.  As I stated above, I believe it is an oversight that the
Pacific-slope
Flycatcher is not on the Utah list.  I’m completely convinced it is a
regular migrant through southwest Utah. Nearly all western flycatchers
that
I’ve observed in lowland locations, that have also vocalized, have
given
both songs and calls consistent with Pacific-slope Flycatchers
(including
the male’s two-note 'tee-seet' contact call). Also other factors
previously
discussed (including, timing, habitat, lowland occurrence) suggest
these are
Pac-slopes rather than Cordilleran Flycatchers. In addition, several
other
species sharing the Pacific-slope’s breeding range and migration
patterns
are regular or somewhat rare migrants through the southwest corner of
the
state (e.g. Cassin’s Vireo, Townsend’s Warbler, Hermit Warbler,
Red-breasted
Sapsucker, Vaux’s Swift). So there is no reason to expect this species
does
not regularly move through southwest Utah.

With all that said, we face a bit of a quandary, and it’s likely to get
much
worse over the next several years.  How do we empirically show a
species
occurs in the state, if we cannot visually or audibly recognize it?  In
the
case of Pacific-slope Flycatchers, there is no reason to suggest it
doesn’t
occur, and in fact it is highly likely that it is a regular migrant
through
the southwest corner of Utah.  However, it is visibly indistinguishable
from
Cordilleran, shows overlap in songs and vocalizations, and even
mist-netting
and measurements are unlikely to be definitive. So the only empirical
solution is genetic analysis, which is also prohibitive for a
non-descript
uncommon to rare migrant through the state (yet rangewide a rather
common
species).  I’d be very surprised if anyone has ever done genetic
analysis of
Pacific-slope Flycatchers in say Nevada, however, it is currently on
the
Nevada checklist and was added following the official split of Western
Flycatchers, based on the high probability of occurrence and migration
patterns of sympatric breeding species.

So, I’d be interested in hearing what you all think about a process to
deal
with future splits of current subspecies. I believe this is really just
the
beginning of a complex problem. "

I appreciate everyone’s time who made it all the way through this!

Thanks,

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: reccom-bounces at utahbirds.org 
[mailto:reccom-bounces at utahbirds.org]On Behalf Of Milt Moody
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:00 AM
To: Records Committee
Subject: [reccom] 3 records completed, 1 to 2nd round

Review page:
http://www.utahbirds.org/ReviewBirds/UnderReview.htm 

Records 2007-22 for a Prothonotary Warbler, 2007-24 for a Reddish
Egret
and 2007-25 for a Blue-headed Vireo were all accepted (7-0) in the
first round.

Record 2007-20 for a Pacific-slope Flycatcher has been sent to a
second
round and is ready for your review.

Greetings from Dennis from Island Park, Idaho.

Milt

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