[Birdtalk] ID request
Cliff and Lisa Weisse
CliffandLisa at octobersetters.com
Wed Oct 1 23:20:16 MDT 2008
This has been an interesting discussion. While the photos may not be
ideal I feel they show definitively that this is not a Blackpoll. The
complete eye ring and plain face, contrasting white throat, and brownish
looking smudgy streaking that extends to the throat are not consistent
with Blackpoll. In addition the primary projection looks short, the
tail extends a bit too far beyond the undertail coverts, and the bill
looks wide. All this is consistent with CSWA, which I think this bird
is. The bottom photo shows a spot of yellowish on the nape that seems
right for CSWA, there's a hint of a blackish streak below and in front
of the eye, and the legs look grayish on my monitor (after lightening in
Photoshop - http://octoberweb.com/birds/MysteryCG2edited.jpg). The only
thing that seems odd for CSWA is the apparent dusky streaking on the
breast/belly and I don't know if that's enough to suggest a hybrid?
Good birding.
Cliff
Mark Stackhouse wrote:
> Fall Blackpoll is one of the toughest of the warblers to id, and shows
> a lot of variability, much as Yellow-rumped do. But if this bird is a
> hybrid, it is an even harder task (and no way to know if you're even
> close to right short of DNA analysis) to tell what the parents might
> be. I've always been very skeptical of such speculations, and am
> amused with how often, when DNA analysis is actually done, that the
> speculations were wildly off-base. Hybrids can show an amazing range
> of characteristics, sometimes ones that neither parent has.
>
> Mark Stackhouse
>
> On Oct 1, 2008, at 11:49 AM, Craig Fosdick wrote:
>
>> Mark, you and Brandon might be right, it might be a hybrid, but I
>> doubt it is a CSWA X Blackpoll. I'm content to go with unidentified
>> warbler.
>>
>> I agree with you about the streaks on the side; those don't fit for
>> CSWA. But I still don't think it's a Blackpoll, the head (eyering,
>> pale bill, no eyestripe) is all wrong from what I see in both field
>> guides, even from the angle we are looking at. if you can see that
>> distinct white eyering, than you should be able to see other details,
>> such as an eyestripe (which is not present). Overall, the bird just
>> does not fit the Blackpolls I have seen in the field in upstate NY.
>>
>> Who knows? Does anyone else have any thoughts? I do not have time
>> to go look for the bird, if it is still there. Has anyone else
>> looked for the bird?
>>
>> Good birding, Craig.
>>
>> Craig Fosdick
>> Logan, Utah.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Mark Stackhouse <westwings at sisna.com
>> <mailto:westwings at sisna.com>> wrote:
>>
>> It may be my monitor, but I don't see enough green on this bird
>> to be a Chestnut-sided. And CSWA shouldn't have any streaking of
>> the type and color seen on the flanks of this bird. I agree that
>> the face looks much more like CSWA than Blackpoll, but I did see
>> some images of Blackpoll on Vireo that weren't too far from this
>> bird, especially when you consider the angle of the head in these
>> photos, that makes the facial details harder to see clearly.
>>
>> However, this bird has enough anomalies that I strongly
>> considered a hybrid (though I didn't mention it in my first
>> post), and I'm inclined to agree with Brandon Percival that
>> hybrid may be the best call for this bird. I'm always reluctant
>> to play the "hybrid" card on tough id's, unless it's something
>> that clearly shows contradictory characteristics. And if this is
>> a hybrid, the next question is of what species? I can't find any
>> records in the literature of CSWA x BLPW, but since they're in
>> they same genus, it would seem possible.
>>
>> In any event, there's no doubt that this bird does not have a
>> clear, straightforward i.d.
>>
>> Mark Stackhouse
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:57 PM, Craig Fosdick wrote:
>>
>>> All-
>>>
>>> Hmmm....I don't think it is a Blackpoll; I just saw about 10 in
>>> upstate NY 10-14 days ago (along with CSWA and others), and the
>>> white eye ring is way too pronounced on this bird to be a
>>> Blackpoll. Also, Blackpolls have dark eyestripes with thin
>>> eyerings; this bird has no eyestripe. Can't say anything
>>> conlcusive about the streaking; some fall male CSWA should have
>>> solid chestnut streaks; perhaps this is a first-year male? (my
>>> Peterson warbler guide is not at hand). Also, Blackpolls should
>>> have black bills, not pale bills; this bird has a pale bill.
>>> And whitish undertail coverts are consisent with CSWA.
>>> Blackpolls also are much drabber, even on the face, and should
>>> not be bright lime-green on face and back. Legs appear to be
>>> mostly concealed by foliage, I'm struggling with the color on
>>> this. Fall male CSWA do have streaks on the back, which this
>>> bird has.
>>>
>>> I vote CSWA, for whatever it's worth. Perhaps someone can
>>> relocate the bird and get better/more looks/photos?
>>>
>>> Craig Fosdick
>>> Logan, Utah.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Mark Stackhouse
>>> <westwings at sisna.com <mailto:westwings at sisna.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a pretty "confusing" fall warbler.
>>>
>>> The plain face and complete eye-ring suggest Chestnut-sided,
>>> but it doesn't look green enough on the back, or (perhaps
>>> more importantly since the back isn't as clearly seen or
>>> well lit in these photos) the underparts clear and
>>> unstreaked enough. Chestnut-sided should not have the
>>> streaking on the flanks that this bird has.
>>>
>>> Bay-breasted is another possibility, but it should be a bit
>>> warmer on the flanks, and again the sides should be less
>>> streaked. Also, the under-tail coverts should be more buffy;
>>> these appear to me to be whitish.
>>>
>>> I'm leaning towards Blackpoll Warbler. Blackpoll has
>>> streaking on the flanks like this bird shows. The under-tail
>>> coverts appear whitish. Also, the legs and feet appear pale
>>> or yellowish to me in the second photo, good for Blackpoll,
>>> but the others should have black legs. The face seems plain
>>> for Blackpoll, but I think it's within the range of
>>> variation for this species.
>>>
>>> Nice photos (warbler photos are never easy) of a great find.
>>>
>>> Mark Stackhouse
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 30, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Milt Moody wrote:
>>>
>>> Carol Gwynn sent in these pictures of a bird at Red
>>> Butte Gardens in SLC and would like some opinions on its
>>> ID. ~ MGM
>>>
>>> http://www.utahbirds.org/hotlinephotos/2008/MysteryBirdCG.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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--
Cliff and Lisa Weisse
Island Park, Idaho
cliffandlisa at octobersetters.com
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