[Birdtalk] ID request

Wed Oct 1 13:54:17 MDT 2008

Fall Blackpoll is one of the toughest of the warblers to id, and shows  
a lot of variability, much as Yellow-rumped do. But if this bird is a  
hybrid, it is an even harder task (and no way to know if you're even  
close to right short of DNA analysis) to tell what the parents might  
be. I've always been very skeptical of such speculations, and am  
amused with how often, when DNA analysis is actually done, that the  
speculations were wildly off-base. Hybrids can show  an amazing range  
of characteristics, sometimes ones that neither parent has.

Mark Stackhouse

On Oct 1, 2008, at 11:49 AM, Craig Fosdick wrote:

> Mark, you and Brandon might be right, it might be a hybrid, but I  
> doubt it is a CSWA X Blackpoll.  I'm content to go with unidentified  
> warbler.
>
> I agree with you about the streaks on the side; those don't fit for  
> CSWA.  But I still don't think it's a Blackpoll, the head (eyering,  
> pale bill, no eyestripe) is all wrong from what I see in both field  
> guides, even from the angle we are looking at.  if you can see that  
> distinct white eyering, than you should be able to see other  
> details, such as an eyestripe (which is not present).  Overall, the  
> bird just does not fit the Blackpolls I have seen in the field in  
> upstate NY.
>
> Who knows?  Does anyone else have any thoughts?  I  do not have time  
> to go look for the bird, if it is still there.  Has anyone else  
> looked for the bird?
>
> Good birding, Craig.
>
> Craig Fosdick
> Logan, Utah.
>
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Mark Stackhouse  
> <westwings at sisna.com> wrote:
> It may be my monitor, but I don't see enough green on this bird to  
> be a Chestnut-sided. And CSWA shouldn't have any streaking of the  
> type and color seen on the flanks of this bird. I agree that the  
> face looks much more like CSWA than Blackpoll, but I did see some  
> images of Blackpoll on Vireo that weren't too far from this bird,  
> especially when you consider the angle of the head in these photos,  
> that makes the facial details harder to see clearly.
>
> However, this bird has enough anomalies that I strongly considered a  
> hybrid (though I didn't mention it in my first post), and I'm  
> inclined to agree with Brandon Percival that hybrid may be the best  
> call for this bird. I'm always reluctant to play the "hybrid" card  
> on tough id's, unless it's something that clearly shows  
> contradictory characteristics. And if this is a hybrid, the next  
> question is of what species? I can't find any records in the  
> literature of CSWA x BLPW, but since they're in they same genus, it  
> would seem possible.
>
> In any event, there's no doubt that this bird does not have a clear,  
> straightforward i.d.
>
> Mark Stackhouse
>
> On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:57 PM, Craig Fosdick wrote:
>
>> All-
>>
>> Hmmm....I don't think it is a Blackpoll; I just saw about 10 in  
>> upstate NY 10-14 days ago (along with CSWA and others), and the  
>> white eye ring is way too pronounced on this bird to be a  
>> Blackpoll.  Also, Blackpolls have dark eyestripes with thin  
>> eyerings; this bird has no eyestripe.  Can't say anything  
>> conlcusive about the streaking; some fall male CSWA should have  
>> solid chestnut streaks; perhaps this is a first-year male?  (my  
>> Peterson warbler guide is not at hand).  Also, Blackpolls should  
>> have black bills, not pale bills; this bird has a pale bill.  And  
>> whitish undertail coverts are consisent with CSWA.  Blackpolls also  
>> are much drabber, even on the face, and should not be bright lime- 
>> green on face and back.  Legs appear to be mostly concealed by  
>> foliage, I'm struggling with the color on this.  Fall male CSWA do  
>> have streaks on the back, which this bird has.
>>
>> I vote CSWA, for whatever it's worth.  Perhaps someone can relocate  
>> the bird and get better/more looks/photos?
>>
>> Craig Fosdick
>> Logan, Utah.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Mark Stackhouse <westwings at sisna.com 
>> > wrote:
>> This is a pretty "confusing" fall warbler.
>>
>> The plain face and complete eye-ring suggest Chestnut-sided, but it  
>> doesn't look green enough on the back, or (perhaps more importantly  
>> since the back isn't as clearly seen or well lit in these photos)  
>> the underparts clear and unstreaked enough. Chestnut-sided should  
>> not have the streaking on the flanks that this bird has.
>>
>> Bay-breasted is another possibility, but it should be a bit warmer  
>> on the flanks, and again the sides should be less streaked. Also,  
>> the under-tail coverts should be more buffy; these appear to me to  
>> be whitish.
>>
>> I'm leaning towards Blackpoll Warbler. Blackpoll has streaking on  
>> the flanks like this bird shows. The under-tail coverts appear  
>> whitish. Also, the legs and feet appear pale or yellowish to me in  
>> the second photo, good for Blackpoll, but the others should have  
>> black legs. The face seems plain for Blackpoll, but I think it's  
>> within the range of variation for this species.
>>
>> Nice photos (warbler photos are never easy) of a great find.
>>
>> Mark Stackhouse
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Milt Moody wrote:
>>
>> Carol Gwynn sent in these pictures of a bird at Red Butte Gardens  
>> in SLC and would like some opinions on its ID.  ~ MGM
>>
>> http://www.utahbirds.org/hotlinephotos/2008/MysteryBirdCG.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Birdtalk mailing list
>> Birdtalk at utahbirds.org
>> http://utahbirds.org/mailman/listinfo/birdtalk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Birdtalk mailing list
>> Birdtalk at utahbirds.org
>> http://utahbirds.org/mailman/listinfo/birdtalk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Birdtalk mailing list
>> Birdtalk at utahbirds.org
>> http://utahbirds.org/mailman/listinfo/birdtalk
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://secureserver.securesites.net/pipermail/birdtalk/attachments/20081001/2aa0ba10/attachment.htm