[Birdtalk] Politics of birding (was "Time for Birders to FlockTogether")

Tue Aug 19 10:27:29 MDT 2008

Mark,
I can only thank you for your excellent posts. Birding should be about
rather more than simply finding rare birds, and I appreciate the good
sense and erudition you bring to the conversations!

Best,
Glenda

Glenda Cotter

-----Original Message-----
From: birdtalk-bounces at utahbirds.org
[mailto:birdtalk-bounces at utahbirds.org] On Behalf Of Mark Stackhouse
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 7:57 PM
To: Birdtalk Talk
Subject: Re: [Birdtalk] Politics of birding (was "Time for Birders to
FlockTogether")

And on yesterday's Tweeters (WA), 11 of 19 posts were on a very lively
debate on the pro's and con's of wind power (especially with regards to
effects on birds), including lots of science, who's money may or may not
be influencing the science, politics nationally and locally that may
affect it, and calls for action on one side or another. It started the
day before, and I suspect it continued today (I'll find out tomorrow
when I get the daily digest).

As one who favors more dialogue rather than less, more information
rather than less, more opinions rather than fewer, and who thinks that
the proper response to what some may call too much free speech is more
free speech, you can guess that I'd rather see Birdtalk more on the
Washington model than the Indiana/Illinois model (in spite of having
grown up in neighboring Ohio).

Mark

On Aug 18, 2008, at 6:57 PM, B.G. Sloan wrote:

>
> Very interesting! The listowners of the Illinois and Indiana state 
> birding lists I'm on probably would have kicked Doug Roberts off the 
> list after the first posting, or reprimanded him severely at the very 
> least.
>
> Vive la difference...
>
> Bernie Sloan
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/18/08, Doug Roberts <djrob1943 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Doug Roberts <djrob1943 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Birdtalk] Politics of birding (was "Time for Birders to

>> Flock Together")
>> To: "M. H. Wallace" <pooder at xmission.com>
>> Cc: "Bird Talk" <birdtalk at utahbirds.org>
>> Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 5:56 PM Thanks Matthew!
>> That's 9 supporters of environmental action on BirdTalk, vs 1 
>> negative.
>> Still, dissent is ok! We need to thank the negative votes too.
>> I'm so open minded my brains may fall out.
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: M. H. Wallace <pooder at xmission.com>
>> To: David Wheeler <dswheeler at utah.gov>
>> Cc: Birdtalk Talk <birdtalk at utahbirds.org>
>> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:41:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Birdtalk] Politics of birding (was "Time for Birders to

>> Flock Together")
>>
>> I second the Amen!
>>
>> Matthew Wallace
>> East Mill Creek / Salt Lake County
>>
>> David Wheeler wrote:
>> Amen to that!  If we can't be bothered with the "inconvenience"
>> of e-mails alerting us to the very environmental issues which most 
>> affect our hobby, we have to ask ourselves what we really stand for 
>> and why we are doing this.  If caring is too difficult, the delete 
>> button beckons.  But before you press, ask yourselves what all you 
>> are deleting.
>>
>> Mark, this is why I love you, dude!  Rant on, baby!!
>>
>> David
>>
>>>>> Mark Stackhouse <westwings at sisna.com>
>> 8/16/2008
>> 11:17 AM >>>
>> "Rant Alert "- if you don't want to read this, hit delete now.
>>
>> Let's consider the topic of "Birding Ethics,"
>> something that is not
>> only considered appropriate for this forum, but has been discussed 
>> many times and has been the subject of numerous posts. No one objects

>> when birders are admonished for playing recordings or excessively 
>> pursuing a far-out-of-range, non-breeding (unless someone can show 
>> evidence of a pair being present), Whip-poor-will in Green Canyon.
>> Such concerns are entirely valid, and this forum is the proper place 
>> to express opinions on the subject.
>>
>> Most who advocate for "ethical behavior" while birding do so out of a

>> concern for the welfare of the individual bird and the population of 
>> its species. The more unusual the sighting, the stronger the call for

>> "ethical" birding practices. But please don't kid yourself into 
>> thinking that "behaving properly" around a rare bird has any benefit 
>> whatsoever to the bird, or especially its species. Not harassing an 
>> extra-limital individual may increase the chances that other birders 
>> may see it (a valid concern), but even shooting such a bird will have

>> absolutely ZERO effect on the species.
>>
>> The fate of a breeding pair of White-faced Ibis at Bear River MBR is 
>> infinitely more important to the future of birds and birding than the

>> fate of whatever out-of-range or edge-of-range rarity that catches 
>> the fancy of the birding community.
>>
>> Inasmuch as the future of ibis (and many thousands of other
>> birds) is
>> threatened by plans for a dam on the Bear River, and that said dam is

>> proposed in order to meet demand for water on the Wasatch Front, then

>> a birder not practicing greatest possible water conservation, over- 
>> watering their lawn (or even having a lawn), not having low-flow 
>> toilets and showers, etc. should be considered in gross violation of 
>> birding ethics.
>>
>> That is, of course, assuming that "birding ethics" is all about 
>> concern for the birds themselves and not just about protecting 
>> sighting opportunities and birder's lists.
>>
>> If, indeed, "birding ethics" is about protecting birds and ensuring 
>> that they, and therefore our shared hobby, have a future, then being 
>> a strong environmentalist, and living a "green"
>> lifestyle should be
>> considered an integral part of practicing good birding ethics. 
>> Birders should view the use of pesticides and weed-killers around the

>> home with the same condemnation as turning a pack of dogs loose into 
>> a waterfowl nesting area at Farmington Bay, for example.
>> It's more
>> harmful to birds than an army of iPod and spotlight wielding birders 
>> in Green Canyon.
>>
>> That brings us to the "elephant" in the room.
>> Political decisions, and
>> who is in control of our government, have a profound and long-lasting

>> effect on the health of our environment and therefore the future of 
>> birds and birding. That isn't a political statement in itself, it's 
>> simple reality. Another simple reality is that the current
>>
>> administration in Washington, supported by so many in Utah and 
>> virtually all elected representatives from our state (even Jim 
>> Matheson hasn't shown concern for the environment equal to his 
>> father), has been among the most damaging to the environment and 
>> birds in our nation's history. The gutting of endangered species 
>> protections by administrative fiat just a few days ago is but the 
>> latest of a long list of insults to our environment promulgated by 
>> the Bush
>>
>> administration.
>>
>> Now decisions of for whom to vote (our ultimate political power as
>> individuals) are complex, and rarely based upon a single issue.
>> Perhaps your concern for gays getting married in California eclipses 
>> your concern for the future of birds and our planet, much in the same

>> way that Boyd K. Packer once explained to me the lack of a strong 
>> pro- environment position by the LDS church by stating that doing so 
>> would cause the church "to be associated with groups with whom they 
>> didn't want to be associated."
>>
>> But if you helped elect a representative whose actions have not been 
>> helpful to birds, and you consider yourself to be an ethical birder, 
>> it's your duty to let said representatives know that you don't agree 
>> with their actions. It's exactly what Doug Roberts was asking you to 
>> do.
>>
>> Consider it your duty in fulfilling your pledge as an ethical birder.
>> Consider it your part in helping ensure that you, your children, your

>> grand-children and their children will continue to be able to enjoy 
>> birds as you do now.
>>
>> If such subjects aren't appropriate in this forum, then no one should

>> ever post here about "birding ethics."
>>
>> End of rant.
>>
>> Mark Stackhouse
>> (currently) San Blas, Nayarit, Mexico mark at westwings,com 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Birdtalk mailing list
>> Birdtalk at utahbirds.org
>> http://utahbirds.org/mailman/listinfo/birdtalk
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Birdtalk mailing list
>> Birdtalk at utahbirds.org
>> http://utahbirds.org/mailman/listinfo/birdtalk
>>
>>
>>      _______________________________________________
>> Birdtalk mailing list
>> Birdtalk at utahbirds.org
>> http://utahbirds.org/mailman/listinfo/birdtalk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Birdtalk mailing list
> Birdtalk at utahbirds.org
> http://utahbirds.org/mailman/listinfo/birdtalk

_______________________________________________
Birdtalk mailing list
Birdtalk at utahbirds.org
http://utahbirds.org/mailman/listinfo/birdtalk