[Birdtalk] Politics of birding (was "Time for Birders to Flock Together")

Mon Aug 18 21:14:49 MDT 2008

All any of this back and forth banter is serving to do I assure you is
discourage people except the select overly confident few from ever posting
on this list-serv. Why would a silent observer want to post when they risk
judgment from so many? All Doug was trying to do was share some information
that was related to birds - even if you could argue that it is a dotted line
- there is an obvious connection between birds and environmental issues.
What is wrong with that? What is everyone so afraid of? Maybe its
threatening to be called to action because of guilt that is felt for
inaction? Is that it? I really don't get it. If this list serv is going to
be so stringent that sharing something that others might be interested in is
going to be questioned and attacked then there is no place for me here and
I'd imagine there'd be no place for many many others who'd like to have
something to say and share without being attacked. Like I said, no one is
going to want to post anymore - but maybe that's what is wanted by the
select few.

Jeff Bilsky

On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 6:57 PM, B.G. Sloan <bgsloan2 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Very interesting! The listowners of the Illinois and Indiana state birding
> lists I'm on probably would have kicked Doug Roberts off the list after the
> first posting, or reprimanded him severely at the very least.
>
> Vive la difference...
>
> Bernie Sloan
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/18/08, Doug Roberts <djrob1943 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Doug Roberts <djrob1943 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Birdtalk] Politics of birding (was "Time for Birders to
> Flock Together")
> > To: "M. H. Wallace" <pooder at xmission.com>
> > Cc: "Bird Talk" <birdtalk at utahbirds.org>
> > Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 5:56 PM
> > Thanks Matthew!
> > That's 9 supporters of environmental action on
> > BirdTalk, vs 1 negative.
> > Still, dissent is ok! We need to thank the negative votes
> > too.
> > I'm so open minded my brains may fall out.
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: M. H. Wallace <pooder at xmission.com>
> > To: David Wheeler <dswheeler at utah.gov>
> > Cc: Birdtalk Talk <birdtalk at utahbirds.org>
> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:41:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Birdtalk] Politics of birding (was "Time
> > for Birders to Flock Together")
> >
> > I second the Amen!
> >
> > Matthew Wallace
> > East Mill Creek / Salt Lake County
> >
> > David Wheeler wrote:
> > Amen to that!  If we can't be bothered with the
> > "inconvenience"
> > of e-mails alerting us to the very environmental issues
> > which most
> > affect our hobby, we have to ask ourselves what we really
> > stand for and
> > why we are doing this.  If caring is too difficult, the
> > delete button
> > beckons.  But before you press, ask yourselves what all you
> > are
> > deleting.
> >
> > Mark, this is why I love you, dude!  Rant on, baby!!
> >
> > David
> >
> > >>> Mark Stackhouse <westwings at sisna.com>
> > 8/16/2008
> > 11:17 AM >>>
> > "Rant Alert "- if you don't want to read
> > this, hit delete now.
> >
> > Let's consider the topic of "Birding Ethics,"
> > something that is not
> > only considered appropriate for this forum, but has been
> > discussed
> > many times and has been the subject of numerous posts. No
> > one objects
> > when birders are admonished for playing recordings or
> > excessively
> > pursuing a far-out-of-range, non-breeding (unless someone
> > can show
> > evidence of a pair being present), Whip-poor-will in Green
> > Canyon.
> > Such concerns are entirely valid, and this forum is the
> > proper place
> > to express opinions on the subject.
> >
> > Most who advocate for "ethical behavior" while
> > birding do so out of a
> > concern for the welfare of the individual bird and the
> > population of
> > its species. The more unusual the sighting, the stronger
> > the call for
> > "ethical" birding practices. But please don't
> > kid yourself into
> > thinking that "behaving properly" around a rare
> > bird has any benefit
> > whatsoever to the bird, or especially its species. Not
> > harassing an
> > extra-limital individual may increase the chances that
> > other birders
> > may see it (a valid concern), but even shooting such a bird
> > will have
> > absolutely ZERO effect on the species.
> >
> > The fate of a breeding pair of White-faced Ibis at Bear
> > River MBR is
> > infinitely more important to the future of birds and
> > birding than the
> > fate of whatever out-of-range or edge-of-range rarity that
> > catches the
> > fancy of the birding community.
> >
> > Inasmuch as the future of ibis (and many thousands of other
> > birds) is
> > threatened by plans for a dam on the Bear River, and that
> > said dam is
> > proposed in order to meet demand for water on the Wasatch
> > Front, then
> > a birder not practicing greatest possible water
> > conservation, over-
> > watering their lawn (or even having a lawn), not having
> > low-flow
> > toilets and showers, etc. should be considered in gross
> > violation of
> > birding ethics.
> >
> > That is, of course, assuming that "birding
> > ethics" is all about
> > concern for the birds themselves and not just about
> > protecting
> > sighting opportunities and birder's lists.
> >
> > If, indeed, "birding ethics" is about protecting
> > birds and ensuring
> > that they, and therefore our shared hobby, have a future,
> > then being a
> > strong environmentalist, and living a "green"
> > lifestyle should be
> > considered an integral part of practicing good birding
> > ethics. Birders
> > should view the use of pesticides and weed-killers around
> > the home
> > with the same condemnation as turning a pack of dogs loose
> > into a
> > waterfowl nesting area at Farmington Bay, for example.
> > It's more
> > harmful to birds than an army of iPod and spotlight
> > wielding birders
> > in Green Canyon.
> >
> > That brings us to the "elephant" in the room.
> > Political decisions, and
> > who is in control of our government, have a profound and
> > long-lasting
> > effect on the health of our environment and therefore the
> > future of
> > birds and birding. That isn't a political statement in
> > itself, it's
> > simple reality. Another simple reality is that the current
> >
> > administration in Washington, supported by so many in Utah
> > and
> > virtually all elected representatives from our state (even
> > Jim
> > Matheson hasn't shown concern for the environment equal
> > to his
> > father), has been among the most damaging to the
> > environment and birds
> > in our nation's history. The gutting of endangered
> > species protections
> > by administrative fiat just a few days ago is but the
> > latest of a long
> > list of insults to our environment promulgated by the Bush
> >
> > administration.
> >
> > Now decisions of for whom to vote (our ultimate political
> > power as
> > individuals) are complex, and rarely based upon a single
> > issue.
> > Perhaps your concern for gays getting married in California
> > eclipses
> > your concern for the future of birds and our planet, much
> > in the same
> > way that Boyd K. Packer once explained to me the lack of a
> > strong pro-
> > environment position by the LDS church by stating that
> > doing so would
> > cause the church "to be associated with groups with
> > whom they didn't
> > want to be associated."
> >
> > But if you helped elect a representative whose actions have
> > not been
> > helpful to birds, and you consider yourself to be an
> > ethical birder,
> > it's your duty to let said representatives know that
> > you don't agree
> > with their actions. It's exactly what Doug Roberts was
> > asking you to do.
> >
> > Consider it your duty in fulfilling your pledge as an
> > ethical birder.
> > Consider it your part in helping ensure that you, your
> > children, your
> > grand-children and their children will continue to be able
> > to enjoy
> > birds as you do now.
> >
> > If such subjects aren't appropriate in this forum, then
> > no one should
> > ever post here about "birding ethics."
> >
> > End of rant.
> >
> > Mark Stackhouse
> > (currently) San Blas, Nayarit, Mexico
> > mark at westwings,com
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>
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-- 
Jeff Bilsky
Salt Lake City
jbilsky at gmail.com
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