[Birdnet] Neotropic Still there

Thu Sep 6 15:33:56 MDT 2007

Colby,
your response is exactly what I was hoping to get when I posted my
question.  thank you for such a lengthy one!

Connie McManus
Cache Valley

On 9/4/07, Colby Neuman <colby.neuman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Connie, Mark, et al.,
>
> To expand on Connie's question...
>
> While I'll admit that a large number of 'southern' strays have been seen
> in Utah in recent years, I'd be very cautious in labeling (or rejoicing if
> you're a lister) global warming as the main cause.  While certainly
> consistent with global warming, there are likely a number of other factors
> that are much more important in the appearance of these birds in Utah
> recently.   Without actual studies documenting prey base changes, expansion
> or loss of breeding habitat, etc., I'd be very uncomfortable attributing any
> population 'expansion' as being caused by global warming.
>
> First, birding is a continual learning experience, and I feel with each
> generation of birders more knowledge is obtained than lost.  For the most
> part, birding knowledge only used to pass via word of mouth and the
> occasional publication of state ornithological reports.  The phone RBA came
> along and certainly aided in the general awareness of bird movements.
> Breeding bird atlases were also initiated in many states, which almost
> certainly helped in the understanding of the distribution of birds
> throughout much of the country.  But the big whammy is the internet, which
> has enabled knowledge to spread WAY more quickly and easily than it ever
> has!  How easy is it to keep track of the listservs from all the surrounding
> states/regions?  I've certainly become much more aware of birds that are
> more likely than others to someday show up in Utah and the places in which
> they may do so.  I'm sure dozens of birders on this listserv keep up on
> surrounding states' listservs in an attempt to better understand the
> distribution and abundance of birds in Utah and the surrounding
> region....that just did not happen 20-30 years ago.  I doubt the recent
> Boreal Owl reports (and breeding records from the Uintas) are due to the
> expansion of the Boreal Owl southward, but birders and wildlife biologists
> are exchanging information, and both parties are finally realizing these
> birds do indeed breed in Utah...now the question is just how far south?
>
> Maybe even most importantly, where do (and have) most birders in Utah
> reside(d)?....the Wasatch Front.  It really has not been until the past
> 10-15 years that a number (not just one or two) of birders have lived in
> places like Cedar City and the St. George vicinity.  While northern Utah
> birders have and still do make excursions down to southern Utah, their
> number of birding days in the southern half of the state is still quite
> small compared to the locals that live down there.  Regardless of skill, the
> more days you get out birding, the more 'unusual' birds you will see, and
> this has undoubtedly contributed to this.  And the fact that there are now a
> lot of birders (some of which are great) that live and bird on a regular
> basis all around southwestern Utah, they are undoubtedly going to find some
> new birds (including breeders) for the state....particularly since so much
> of southern Utah has traditionally been lacking in data and coverage.
>
> Not to pick on Mark, but Painted Redstart records exist from Zion in the
> 30's and into the 60's and 70's.  While none of these were breeders, I'd be
> surprised if none of these birds were associated with some sort of breeding
> Utah population.  The first record of Zone-tailed Hawk in Utah came from
> 1984 in Capital Reef NP....not exactly on the AZ/UT border.  So to me, it's
> not too surprising that a population, albeit small, has been discovered
> recently ~75-100 miles to the SW in Kolob and Pine Park.  I don't doubt
> earlier birders overlooked these hawks at both places.  It's not too hard to
> do.  I just think it's premature to say a population has expanded when there
> was little to no good data previously at the location.  I think most range
> 'expansions' are primarily due to more and better coverage of an area rather
> than birds actually expanding their ranges.  There are obvious exceptions to
> this rule such as Great-tailed Grackle, Eurasion Collared-Dove, etc., but
> again, we have good data before and after documenting such expansions....and
> these birds are expanding into a niche that did not exist prior to modern
> day society.  The UOS still doesn't recognize Winter Wren as a summer
> resident (and breeder).  I (and others) have heard more than a dozen in the
> past 3 years singing on territory in the Wasatch.  Did we just uncover a
> massive range expansion southward due to global warming?  I doubt it.  These
> birds were almost certainly overlooked for dozens of years practically right
> here in our backyard.  This is why I think so many 'range expansions' are
> merely populations that have existed for quite some time and have been
> overlooked.  I'm sure we have a lot more left to learn about the avifauna of
> this state than most of us think we do.
>
> Also, one more important note is that biodiversity generally increases as
> you go towards the equator so there are flat out more possibilities for
> first state record birds to the south than the north of us.
>
> Colby
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/1/07, Mark Stackhouse < westwings at sisna.com> wrote:
> >
> > There's been a trend for some years now of birds from southern Utah
> > expanding their ranges northward, and, though I don't have hard data,
> > I'm pretty sure that the number of state-first records in the last ten
> > years, and maybe even "rare" birds seen has been dominated by southern
> > Utah reports. It's been a while since we've had a real rarity stray
> > from the north.
> >
> > This is consistent with reports elsewhere in with regards to birds and
> > other organisms, and is generally considered evidence of global
> > warming. I recently read that the movement northward in North America
> > for a broad range of species is about 100 miles in the last 25 years.
> > Perhaps even more telling is the "state-first" birds of the last 20
> > years in southern Utah that are now regular, breeding species in the
> > state, such as Painted Redstart and Zone-tailed Hawk.
> >
> > Mark Stackhouse
> > mark at westwings.com
> > 801-487-9453 (Salt Lake City, Utah, USA)
> > 011-52-323-285-1243 (San Blas, Nayarit, Mexico)
> >
> > On Sep 1, 2007, at 10:39 AM, Connie McManus wrote:
> >
> > > Hi, Gang
> > > I have a burning question ...
> > > I've noticed this year we have had sitings of birds that are usually
> > > found south of us -- the painted bunting, this neotropic cormorant and
> > > probably others, but these are the two that come to my mind readily.
> > > Is this normal from year to year to see the odd bird that is usually
> > > found south of UT, or is there an even distribution of rare birds from
> > > all compas points? Secondly, with all the flurry about global warming
> > > and hotter, wetter or drier, more intense storms weather due to
> > > climate change (not to mention forrest/brush fires), could these be
> > > reasons why we are seeing these exotic birds?
> > >
> > > Connie McManus
> > > the little ol' lady from cache valley
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/31/07, Larry Tripp <ltripp29 at hotmail.com > wrote: The Neotropic
> > > Cormorant was still there tonight. I got to the lake at about 5:00 pm
> > > and looked in the spot where Rick first saw it and it wasn't there. I
> > > saw a lot of Cormorants were toward the south end of the Lake so I
> > > drove down the road on the west side ( coming from Cedar City it's the
> > > first left heading south after passing the lake. I went to 2000 south
> > > and drove the dirt road towards the lake parked and walked to the
> > > shore line. Looking to the south I first saw the bird on the dike that
> > > crosses the lake close to the south end.
> > >> Rick showed up shortly after that and the bird had flown to the east
> > >> side and was mixed in with a lot of D C Cormorants and White
> > >> Pelicans. It took us a while to relocate the bird. When it's in the
> > >> open it's pretty easy to pick out but it spent some time back in the
> > >> bushes where it's hard to see. We watched it until sunset.
> > >>
> > >> There's probably 75+ D C Cormorants there but size alone makes it
> > >> pretty easy to pick out. There isn't a lot of access spots there so
> > >> you definitely need a scope. I'm sure it moves around and may be
> > >> hidden at times.
> > >>
> > >> It's a great bird for the state you better get down and look for it.
> > >>
> > >> Larry Tripp
> > >>
> > >> Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more!
> > >>
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Connie McManus
> > > Nibley, Cache County,
> > > Utah_______________________________________________
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>
>
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-- 
Connie McManus
Nibley, Cache County, Utah
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